Please check out our medical translation project here [1]. We would love to have your help. James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email) (please leave replies on my talk page) 10 jan 2014 18:36 (CET)


Hallo Doc James, en welkom op de Nederlandstalige Wikipedia!
  Welcome message in English

Hartelijk dank voor je belangstelling voor Wikipedia! We werken hier aan het ideaal van een vrij beschikbare, vrij bewerkbare, volledige en neutrale gemeenschapsencyclopedie. We waarderen het enorm als ook jij hieraan wilt bijdragen!

De Nederlandstalige Wikipedia is sinds 19 juni 2001 online en telt inmiddels 2.022.164 artikelen. In de loop van de jaren zijn er voor het schrijven of bewerken van artikelen en voor de onderlinge samenwerking een aantal uitgangspunten en richtlijnen geformuleerd. Neem die als nieuwkomer ter harte. Lees ook eerst even de informatie in dit venster voordat je aan de slag gaat. Geen van de richtlijnen heeft kracht van wet, want Wikipedia is en blijft vóór alles vrij bewerkbaar, maar een beetje houvast voordat je in het diepe springt kan nooit kwaad.

 Deze pagina, die nu op je scherm staat, is trouwens je persoonlijke overlegpagina, de plaats waar je berichten van andere Wikipedianen ontvangt en ze kunt beantwoorden. Iedere gebruiker heeft zo'n pagina. Wil je een nieuw overleg met iemand anders beginnen, dan kan dat dus op zijn of haar overlegpagina. Sluit je bijdragen op overlegpagina's altijd af met vier tildes, dus zo: ~~~~. Een druk op de handtekeningknop (zie afbeelding) heeft hetzelfde effect: je bericht wordt automatisch ondertekend met je gebruikersnaam en de datum en tijd waarop je je boodschap voltooide. Versturen doe je met de knop "Wijzigingen publiceren".


Had je gezien dat we al een pagina over Schizofrenie hebben?  Wikiklaas  overleg  4 mei 2014 23:19 (CEST)

Yes thanks I did. I am needing some help from local Wikipedians with this project. [2] All translated articles are here [3] James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email) (please leave replies on my talk page) 4 mei 2014 23:49 (CEST)
If you can't communicate in Dutch, for what reason are you trying to contribute to this project then? This is the Dutch language Wikipedia.  Wikiklaas  overleg  6 mei 2014 04:11 (CEST)

Yes well aware that this is the Dutch Wikipedia :-) I am working on this project [4] which has translated a bunch of content into Dutch. All the Wiki markup is in place. Just needs to be integrated with the existing content. Would you be interested in helping? Progress is here [5] James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email) (please leave replies on my talk page) 6 mei 2014 05:58 (CEST)

My idea of a translation project is that the authors at least are able to understand and write te target language. If you can't even recognize we already have an article on a subject just because you don't know the right word for it, then you may introduce unnecessary problems. Thanks for your efforts but making valuable contributions is not the same as creating articles which have the wiki markup in place. It's about the content, which we tend to write in Dutch. I think it's okay if you create a list of available subjects but leave the actual translation and addition of articles to the Dutch community. Cheers.  Wikiklaas  overleg  6 mei 2014 11:24 (CEST)
The translators of the content understand Dutch perfectly. Most languages have local editors integrating the content. This article for example Hersenvliesontsteking resulted from this translation effort.
What I am trying to do is find local editors willing to integrate this content. Would you be willing to help? The list is here [6]. If the Dutch Wikipedia community is not interested in the help of professional translators I can ask them to stop. James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email) (please leave replies on my talk page) 6 mei 2014 15:28 (CEST)
Please have a look at this discussion (it's in English). It illustrates why I became worried when I found a totally new article in your user space for a subject that we already have an article on. And my fear appears to be justified.  Wikiklaas  overleg  11 mei 2014 00:29 (CEST)
Not sure what your fear was? I was asking the editing community here if 1) these are useful 2) if they would be willing to integrate them with the already existing text. James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email) (please leave replies on my talk page) 11 mei 2014 00:51 (CEST)

Some adviceBewerken

Dear Jmh649,

Thank you for the help and interest you and your project are giving the Dutch Wikipedia. The Medical Translation Taskforce can help our project significantly. I looked at the work of your contributors and read about the opposition to it from local editors. The latter seems to me unnecessary and undeserving of your good intentions.

Please understand that since the founding of our project, our community has had a growing sense of being bullied by the international community. Technical changes are implemented without our consent. Bad translations and translations of bad content have been a major problem for those caring about the quality of our content. Guidelines have been forced upon us from above. Even though the majority of these changes would have been for the better or at least possible to accommodate, the lack of communication accompanying these changes has set people up. You seem to have run into the mistrust and irritation this has created against anything coming from the international or English communities.

Your translations are improvements and deserve praise. I am convinced we can cooperate better when your editors take some local rules and ways into account. Can you please communicate these to those interested in translating into Dutch?

  • In some fields our project operates differently from other projects in ways that may surprise. When you contribute to our project, please take a moment to read our local guidelines and ways, and respect them. Since you are a new contributor you may find it difficult to find your way around. Do not hesitate to ask local editors where to find the right project pages to discuss, notify or report bad content or behaviour, and let them explain the procedures to you.
  • The demand, by one of our users, that new information can only be added to an already existing version, seems unreasonable to me. When you re-edit an existing article, you cannot avoid throwing away much or most of the original. However, when the original contains correct additional information (such as the Dutch name "knokkelkoorts" in the article about Dengue fever), this should be incorporated into the new version. Please ask your editors to scan the original for such additional information before placing a translation.
  • The English Wikipedia has an addiction to inline notes. We don't share that affliction here, and try to keep the density of references in our texts as low as possible (as opposed to the number of references in the source lists below the articles). We look at professional encyclopedias to define our standards, and in such works inline notes are often non-existent, and certainly rarer than in scientific or popular scientific texts. Inline references are only deemed necessary here when it is conceivable another user may challenge the information, or deem the information controversial on reasonable grounds. Avoid using several notes in the same sentence, as it decreases the ease of both reading and editing. When possible, combine several references into one note.
  • When translating, please take into account that the Anglo-American style of writing is in general different from that in other parts of the world. Whatever the reasons, Dutch writing is (in general) in between the Anglo-American and German styles. The difference begins with sentence structure: the average sentence in Dutch is much longer than in English (but much shorter than in German). Content-wise, the most important difference is that professional Dutch writing puts more emphasis on synthesis, and less emphasis on summarizing facts, than British and American writing. Your translators should at least take this cultural/linguistic difference into account when working for our project.

I hope this can help you to have a better cooperation with the local editors in future, after a somewhat turbulent start. You do highly valuable work for us, and it is appreciated more than may appear from some of the comments. Regards, Woudloper overleg 31 mei 2014 09:48 (CEST)

Am looking for local editors to join this effort. This is how the whole discussion began :-) James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email) 31 mei 2014 20:53 (CEST)
I do not have much time for Wikipedia at the moment, but you can ask me to interfere, advice, or help whenever there is a problem or misunderstanding between the task force and local editors. Just leave a message at my talk page and I'll look into it. With "you" (anywhere above) I mean all translators working for the task force. Translators keeping the 4 bullet points above in mind should not have any trouble adding content here, imho. Woudloper overleg 1 jun 2014 06:31 (CEST)
Yes so the thing is the translators do not feel comfortable or able to add the translations to Wikipedia. They just translate the content with all the WikiMedia Markup in place. The hope was that members of the local community would then add the content in question. This whole discussion began when we (User:CFCF) posted to asking for help, involvement and input from the local community here on the Dutch Wikipedia. James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email) 1 jun 2014 13:42 (CEST)
If mark-up is the biggest problem and nothing works out, you could leave out the inline references altogether. In that way you avoid problems with the reference systems and the citation templates. If a link to the original is given somewhere (as according to the licence), it is possible for any user to help add notes at a later stage. In that case, I advice to at least mention the sources in a reference/source/literature/weblink list below the article instead. At wp:nl, it is standard to use the template:appendix for such lists - but I noticed your translators already work with it. Woudloper overleg 2 jun 2014 15:06 (CEST)
(User:Woudloper) Thanks a whole lot for the tips. I've received an IEG aiming to get this work underway. The hope if for the Dutch community to help with integration, and I'm currently working on setting up a system so that it will be easier for editors here and elsewhere to help out. I'll give you a ping when it goes live. Best, -- CFCF (overleg) 2 jun 2014 11:29 (CEST)
Congratulations with the grant! It's encouraging and motivating to meet editors like yourselves, who take the cooperation and means of our projects to a higher level. I could only wish contributors in my own area of interest were so resourceful :-) Awaiting your ping, Woudloper overleg 2 jun 2014 15:23 (CEST)